This is a serious question -- since it's been posed that ending the patriarchy can be harmful to some men and women (particularly men and women of color),
I'd like to know what those harms are exactly.
2 Kudos
Who will be harmed if we end the patriarchy?
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 radicalbean |
Who will be harmed if we end the patriarchy? |
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Wild 'n' freerange chicken
Posts: 868 (04/25/08 1:38 PM) |
A group of fat chicks with pom pons are an unstoppable force -- Marilyn Wann
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Sycamore72 |
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Posts: 2099 (04/25/08 1:44 PM) Selfish Hedonist |
Was this on another thread?
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radicalbean |
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Wild 'n' freerange chicken
Posts: 869 (04/25/08 1:47 PM) |
It was said by a couple of people on other blogs. But, at least one of those people also posts here, so maybe she can respond directly. But, I'd be
interested in hearing other people's ideas, too.
A group of fat chicks with pom pons are an unstoppable force -- Marilyn Wann
F.A.T.A.S.S. |
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easstcoast |
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Tell Tishie your custom level!
Posts: 1346 (04/25/08 5:14 PM) |
How exactly do you define "patriarchy" in this context ? Me personally, I'm hard pressed to think of a single aspect of my life that's controlled by men. |
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radicalbean |
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Wild 'n' freerange chicken
Posts: 872 (04/25/08 5:17 PM) |
For the purposes of this discussion, I think that the definition is open for interpretation.
A group of fat chicks with pom pons are an unstoppable force -- Marilyn Wann
F.A.T.A.S.S. |
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Tishie |
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Posts: 2089 (04/25/08 5:45 PM) The Tishie |
Eastcoast, how about all of the laws?
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easstcoast |
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Tell Tishie your custom level!
Posts: 1348 (04/25/08 7:52 PM) |
I know I'll be accused of being deliberately obtuse again, but what laws ? If you could clarify I'll be happy to respond. |
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sprezzatura3 |
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Downy chick
Posts: 69 (04/26/08 8:22 AM) |
That's really interesting that someone here said that people could be harmed by ending the patriarchy. I like to try and keep an open mind so I now
I'm curious to see what they mean by that exactly. It sounds like potentially a new idea that I've never been exposed to, and yay for new ideas!
Perhaps they meant that the transition to ending patriarchy is difficult for both men and women as we reassess gender norms and roles and move further towards a society that's more equal. Because the transition to ending patriarchy is what is going on right now, IMO. I figure if patriarchy has been around for thousands of years, then it might take a while, historically speaking, to pull away from it. But we've only just begun if you look at it like a historian. And the transition has been difficult for both men and women in some ways. |
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mamakate |
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Tell Tishie your custom level!
Posts: 1690 (04/26/08 10:21 AM) |
radicalbean wrote: How would women of color be harmed by the end of the patriarchy? |
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Tishie |
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Posts: 2091 (04/26/08 5:40 PM) The Tishie |
Almost all of the laws were made by men, eastcoast. Do you think that is insignificant? Most of the people governing us are men, too. I just mentioned an
obvious and concrete example, because I already know you don't believe in the patriarchal air that we breathe.
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easstcoast |
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Tell Tishie your custom level!
Posts: 1351 (04/26/08 7:48 PM) |
Almost all of the laws were made by men, eastcoast. Do you think that is insignificant? Most of the people governing us are men, too. When you use the word: "almost" are you saying that bills signed into law by female governors would qualify as laws that were not made by men ? But to answer your question, yes, I absolutely believe that the gender of the legislators (or the executive) that make our laws is insignificant. It's absolutely insignificant. What matters is what the text of the law being enacted says. I couldn't care less what what gender (or race or sexual orientation) the people that make our laws are. What I care about is whether or not the law denies me equal opportunity. Just out of curiosity can you list the laws that you feel hold you in patriarchal bondage ? If you could offer some specificity it may shed light on where we are in disagreement. |
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radicalbean |
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Wild 'n' freerange chicken
Posts: 874 (04/26/08 11:43 PM) |
How would women of color be harmed by the end of the patriarchy?I have absolutely no idea. That's why I'm asking. A group of fat chicks with pom pons are an unstoppable force -- Marilyn Wann
F.A.T.A.S.S. |
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bleustocking |
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Feathery chick
Posts: 168 (04/27/08 10:28 AM) |
Well, trying to unpack argument that women of color would be harmed the most in the ending of the patriarchy, I think there's a longstanding belief that in
times of social change, people at the bottom of the totem pole are always harmed the most. If you depend on a man of color and his priveleges are taken away,
maybe you pay the greatest price, especially during the time of the paradigm shift. If you used to depend on a man and now can't, and you yourself face
employment discrimination, tough luck. Perhaps the argument is that absent partriarchal privelege, white women move into psoitions of power that used to be
occupied by men of color with dependent families. If you're already among the poorest and most reliant on social safety nets, and now you can't, say,
rely on your husband's Social Security, that's going to be much worse than if you already have substantial savings and a great big expensive house to
sell.
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The Mighty Isis |
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Downy chick
Posts: 64 (04/27/08 11:08 AM) |
The end of patriarchy is what we are all working for, isn't it? No one will be harmed!
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radicalbean |
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Wild 'n' freerange chicken
Posts: 878 (04/27/08 9:45 PM) |
The end of patriarchy is what we are all working for, isn't it?Apparently not. And when one white blogger claimed it was, the outcry of racism and white privilege for thinking it was overwhelming. A group of fat chicks with pom pons are an unstoppable force -- Marilyn Wann
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EinShem |
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Feathery chick
Posts: 80 (04/28/08 4:21 AM) |
radicalbean, can you point us to the blog where this happened?
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bleustocking |
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Feathery chick
Posts: 171 (04/28/08 10:15 AM) |
radicalbean wrote: ... when one white blogger claimed it was, the outcry of racism and white privilege for thinking it was overwhelming. Was this discussion about patriarchy referencing a different meaning than what we are all familiar with? (I realize the great assumption in that question, but eh, what the hell.) |
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radicalbean |
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Wild 'n' freerange chicken
Posts: 881 (04/28/08 1:36 PM) |
No, it was not a different meaning that what we are familiar with -- at least, the blogger didn't intend one.
As for where it took place, well, I don't want to link to it, for obvious reasons. But it took place at Amp's blog, in a post by Mandolin, writing about the blowup over the Amanda/BFP blow-out. If someone would like me to provide the exact link, I will do so in email or a PM, but not here. A group of fat chicks with pom pons are an unstoppable force -- Marilyn Wann
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EinShem |
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Feathery chick
Posts: 83 (04/29/08 4:53 AM) |
ok, that's good enough.
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bleustocking |
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Feathery chick
Posts: 174 (05/02/08 12:31 PM) |
I'm not familiar with all that, but thanks for soundbiting it. Is this a new Amp venture? Last I heard, he'd sold his blog?
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blue lily |
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Big clucker
Posts: 556 (05/02/08 7:00 PM) |
Amp's blog is where it's always been and there's never been any interruption in the blogging. He sold the domain name, which means that while
reading his blog looks exactly like it always has, there are other areas of the domain name used for advertising purposes -- you have to hunt a little on the
blog page to find a link accessing that other stuff, which includes movies reviews, porn reviews, sex toy articles, etc. And there's been controversy over
the fact that there's porn-related info within the domain pages. But the blog is and has always been right there.
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